| Author | Topic | | Grime
Starting Member
USA
26 Posts |  Posted - 07 Apr 2008 : 21:55:35   
| This topic seems to be coming up more and more in my life. It is true that I have done my fair share of suffering, but I know those who have lived with far more grace through far worse circumstances. Usually, there seems (yes seems) to be no rhyme or rhythm to suffering.
It is inevitable that THE QUESTION rises from any conversation on suffering. "Why, if there is a loving God in Heaven, would He allow His people to suffer?" Some ask in earnest, seeking an answer, some ask as if an inadequate answer is proof that God does not exist. So I propose that we answer it for ourselves and the readers of these forums.
Yes, I realize theologians have wrestled with this question for years, centuries even. I firmly believe that we can form a reasonable explanation. No, we will never fully understand the mind of God, even as He resurrects us into our new bodies. It is still vitally necessary to fellow brothers and sisters who suffer, and to the undecided who need to hear sound theology on suffering, that we Christians be prepared to answer.
For me, I see suffering as the direct result of Mankind's fall. God gave Adam and his children dominion over the Earth and all upon it. We are tasked with the upkeep and stewardship of Creation.
From our fall, we introduced error, corruption, and death into Creation. The first deaths were animals to cover our nakedness. Pain was introduced into childbirth and even science confirms that human females are the only females on Earth that experience true pain in childbirth. Toil, thorns and thistles hinder our efforts to feed ourselves. The first murder occurs shortly after this. Within just a few generations the Earth is filled with such sinfulness and error that God floods the Earth and starts anew.
We make bad choices which effect the entirety of Creation. We submit ourselves to various chemicals that cause mutations in our genetic structure. We submit ourselves to chemicals that effect our judgment and we make choices that dramatically change the lives of others, i.e. the drunk driver who injures or kills others. The death we brought upon creation feeds germs that make us sick. We submit ourselves to false thought and teachings causing strife, even war.
And these are some of the ways that our sins are visited upon our children, our grandchildren, even to the third generation. Generations that haven't been born yet will pay for choices we, or those around us, make. We reap what we sow.
So suffering is the result of mankind's sin. The question is why does God allow it. The answer is, it's not His responsibility. He committed no crime, He shares no part in the price. Even when the price is paid by the innocent, He has no responsibility in solving it. It is OUR responsibility to solve the problem of suffering.
But, He has performed miracles for some, why not all?
When He does step in to end suffering, it is by His grace. I believe the only time He performs miracles is when those who receive and those who witness will not waste it, but minister through it. Look at all of the miracles Jesus performed and how many witnesses and recipients ended up being ministers. By this, He not only restores health, wealth, and some degree of comfort, but He restores the recipients to their rightful place as caretakers.
So, my view on suffering is, it's our fault we suffer. He has no part in suffering at all. When He does step in to alleviate it, it is only when we will once again accept our role as masters and caretakers of our part of creation.
What say you? |
If your dream is not worth your life, then you are dreaming too small. |
| AXEMAN2415
Guitar Weenie
USA
740 Posts | Posted - 07 Apr 2008 : 22:53:36
| I would tend to agree with where you place the blame, Grime, but I will tell you that is definitely not the politically correct answer, and many will vilify you for daring to suggest that our own hands are dirty.
However, there are innocents that suffer (I mean, if there ever was an innocent victim, it is the fetus in the womb); Children caught in a war zone, or in the path of a malicious warlord (Robert Mugabe comes to mind...), A victim of a drunk driver, who is killed while the drunk walks away without a scratch...etc.
I submit that if we are going to have the privilege of free will, then we must accept the laws of life. Of course, it is probably easy for me to say, because I have not truly suffered, nor do I desire to. But then, nobody wants to suffer, even the ones who do. Believe me, I am not going to allow suffering to have free reign. I am going to fight it and do all I can to prevent it, or at least marginalize it's effects in my life. I do not believe that there is any special spiritual standing in suffering (And I am not suggesting you are saying that, BTW).
However, I do realize that suffering is as much a part of life as as joy. But so is hunger, yet we do try to eliminate hunger.War is an inevitable part of life, but we should always sue for peace. Lies are a part of life, yet we should always search for truth. I see suffering as a part of life, but one that we should do our best to avoid. Yet, for those who are suffering, we should also do our best to comfort. |
"C'mon Dave, Gimme a break!" |  |
| Shredhead
Junior Member
Australia
322 Posts | Posted - 08 Apr 2008 : 06:06:07
| Greetings one & all !
I wholeheartedly agree with Grime as to the cause of suffering . However , I don't believe that answers your question . Why does God allow such suffering ? Keeping in mind that one of this ages greatest apologists , Ravi Zacharias , has devoted an entire book { Deliver Us From Evil } to this very question , we may be overly optimistic to think we can explain it here lol .
In saying that , I will try to express my own thoughts on the question , as I have found Peace in them .
Our Bible tells us that God causes the rain to fall on the good & the bad . As we know , none are "good" , so we can assume it's talking about those of us that know God . It's these people , "us" , that I'll talk about , because lets face it , if you don't belong to Him , you belong to the devil , & suffering in this life is the least of your worries .
Can we then say that God causes/allows suffering to come upon His children ? I believe so . I know I'm probably being rebuked & prayed for right now by those that subscribe to the 'prosperity doctrine ' , but please hear me out lol . I believe there's blessing in suffering , BUT ! & like Wills' ego , it's a big "but" lol , suffering for the sake of the gospel , not suffering at the hands of our own bad choices or disobedience .
Who among us , & I don't know everyones circumstances , so I'm not labelling anyone ok , can say they know God as Job did ? I know I don't . Job knew God intimately enough , that God allowed him to endure that suffering as a witness . Sure , Job got upset , he was an upright man of the Faith , seemingly being penalised for no apparent reason . But Job didn't know , he couldn't know , that 1000's of years later , I , & 10000 others , would be encouraged by his story....God did .
See , like Job , we tend to place too much importance on our own immediate comfort , whereas God , is interested in the eternal . As God had to remind Job , life is not always about us , there's a bigger picture . Being able to trust God , in the midst of personal loss & suffering , that's the real blessing . Knowing Gods' character , & allowing Him to develop that same character in you ,sometimes for our own good , sometimes for the good of others , rarely without a cost , that's a real blessing .
Now , to the Brother or Sister that has just lost one of their children to a drunk driver , this is pretty cold comfort , but I will guarantee , if they cling to Him through their suffering , when they come out the other side , they'll know a part of God I have only read about .
I think it's understanding this ,that allowed Paul to " count it all Joy " .
Hope I made sense to ya'll , if I didn't , may I suggest you read the aforementioned Ravi Zacharias book , he says it better than I ever could anyway .
Later .
|
but some of you need to be awakened and slapped silly - William D Rauser |
Edited by - Shredhead on 08 Apr 2008 06:17:21 | |
| AXEMAN2415
Guitar Weenie
USA
740 Posts | Posted - 08 Apr 2008 : 15:53:19
| As an addendum to Shred's comment, I find it interesting that without God to lean on when trouble strikes is a horrible, hopeless situation, empty in it's ability to give any answer or comfort at all.
And yet I find it increasingly ironic that those who would deny or marginalize God's existence when things are comfortable, are the very one's demanding that God answer for the allowance of suffering when it strikes.
When we are doing our own thing, and God appears, we resent Him for getting in the way of our freedoms, and demand that He take leave of us. But when He allows the consequences of our freedoms (both good and bad), we demand an explanation as to why He didn't get in the way.
Kind of hypocritical, in my view. (BTW, That is not directed at any one in particular.) |
"C'mon Dave, Gimme a break!" | |
| Grime
Starting Member
USA
26 Posts | Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 01:03:28
| I disagree with God ever causing suffering or bringing any ill, but that is a debate slightly off target for what I wanted to discuss.
I agree with every other thing you said Shred (poetry, pure poetry), but I see it as a specific subsection of suffering. This is suffering brought on by demonic/evil attack. Satan himself was directing Job's suffering. And those who find themselves in this kind of position have only their faith to defend them; for the only reason to that kind of suffering is the testing of their faith. It is not a common suffering, caused by the fallen nature of creation. It is a testing of someone.
And so, we can add this to our answer on suffering. But believe me, as someone who has done a small portion of suffering while not being tested, not everyone finds comfort or guidance from Job. What I am seeking, not for myself, but for the sake of ministry, is a more complete answer.
And Yes Axeman, there are innocents that suffer. I have seen them, the terrible wounds caused by roadside bombs to children who were just standing there, men and women starving from a regime that would not care for its own, disease contracted and passed on to the unsuspecting. Being charged as a caretaker for this creation means doing all I can to ease the suffering.
And I do not wish to give answers to the dedicated atheists of this world. They reject what is plainly true with reasoned arguments based upon supposed facts. They will only relent through proof and proof is opposed to faith. I will not cast pearls before swine. Literally, to Hell with them, turned over to a reprobate mind.
I will argue with the dedicated atheists to give answers to those who listen in. It is those for whom I seek to answer questions. And for those who seek, only truth can suffice, so I forego being politically correct. Shall I let friendships and acceptance keep me from ministry? If so, then to Hell with me as well, speaking false things to please the world.
So are we now to say that the answer to suffering depends upon the cause of our suffering? |
If your dream is not worth your life, then you are dreaming too small. | |
| AXEMAN2415
Guitar Weenie
USA
740 Posts | Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 16:12:36
| quote:
So are we now to say that the answer to suffering depends upon the cause of our suffering?
If I understand your question correctly, then I would have to say no. The question is "Where is God when we suffer?" or more accurately, "Why does God allow suffering?"
In Job, the cause of suffering was the accusing Satan. But God allowed Satan to do it. Notice that in the scene between God and Satan, God gave the Devil authority to both to strip Job of his earthly possessions and his health. But God forbid the Devil to take Job's life. The Bible makes it quite clear that God found Job a righteous man, so much so that the Almighty boasted of Job to the heavenly beings. Clearly, this was not a case of suffering for committing sin or disobeying God. Nor, I think, was it to test Job's faith. If Job's faith needed testing, God surely did not indicate it.
Maybe suffering is God's way of showing our utter dependence on Him. Of course, that argument can be easily shot down by the fact that there are many who do not suffer at all, and are still aware of their utter dependence upon God. So, to turn a phrase, I just don't know.... |
"C'mon Dave, Gimme a break!" | |
| AXEMAN2415
Guitar Weenie
USA
740 Posts | Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 16:15:02
| | I might add that maybe suffering is God's way of proving the Devil wrong...yet more evidence of the victorious Christ and the defeated Devil....but that's just a guess.... |
"C'mon Dave, Gimme a break!" | |
| Captain Blasto
Cappuccino Junkie
USA
212 Posts | Posted - 12 Apr 2008 : 02:04:53  
| | Proof CAN engender faith... what of Thomas? or of the fulfillment in our eyes and ears of prophecy? As it is written: "We have the more sure word of prophecy" as opposed to the eyewitness accounts... these ARE proofs evident both before and after applied faith... suffering makes and/or breaks us... it is "allowed by" but not "inflicted by" God. Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell were correct in their assessment that God's hand of protection over the U.S. likely lifted enough to allow the 9/11 attacks. As a wake-up call. Whether those attacks spiritually made or will break us remains to be seen. We (as a nation) appear to be rather "spiritually challenged". Mercy provided that many who should have been in those buildings were not. That does not mean that they who perished were somehow less deserving to have survived... only that their appointed time had apparently come... Will their orphaned children become the catalytic torch-bearers for this nation's continued remembrance and realization of our very real spiritual enemies of principalities and powers? Would they have carried that message without the unfolding of those events? |
President of the
Juan Valdez fanclub
Kirk Out | |
| Captain Blasto
Cappuccino Junkie
USA
212 Posts | Posted - 12 Apr 2008 : 02:14:02
| | ummm.... In other words (or as they wrote it in a memo at work anotherwards....) don't consign the reprobate athiests to Hell yet... God can still make a way for them... There are flaws in their "reasoned" armor. All The Holy Spirit needs is a flinch... |
President of the
Juan Valdez fanclub
Kirk Out | |
| AXEMAN2415
Guitar Weenie
USA
740 Posts | Posted - 12 Apr 2008 : 11:19:48
| With all due respect, I am not sure that I can agree with the assessments of Robertson and Falwell. We do have an enemy (both in the spiritual realm as well as worldly...although, in this case, I suggest they are one and the same) that seeks our destruction, simply because we exist. To assume that we were attacked because God lifted His divine protection from over our nation is to give credence to the notions that #1: The United States is the only nation God loves, and #2: that other nations are suffering more because God loves them less. This kind of logic, IMO, is the mistake that all of Job's friends made when they were attempting to console Job over the reasons why God allowed him to suffer. As we all know from the revelation of Scripture, Job was totally innocent of wrongdoing, yet he suffered greatly.
Job's friends tried to convince him that it was "obvious" that he must have committed some kind of sin or crime for God to lift His divine hand. But they were very wrong, and God let them know, in no uncertain terms, that they were wrong.
There were also plenty of examples in Scripture where God preserved a nation because of the elect few who refused to succumb to evil. So again, I am not so certain that both Falwell and Robertson (and their acolytes) were correct in their analysis. To be perfectly honest, I think they were downright foolish and irresponsible, BUT that is only one man's opinion.
However, I must at least present the question: Could it be that God allowed our nation to be attacked in such a heinous way to awaken our wrath against those who really are the largest evil in this world? There is also plenty of Scriptural precedent for that. God used numerous nations to punish Israel when they were wicked, and God also used Israel to punish other nations because Israel had been obedient.
Either way, nobody really knows the plans the Father makes in the heavens. We can guess, but that's all it really amounts to. |
"C'mon Dave, Gimme a break!" | |
| Captain Blasto
Cappuccino Junkie
USA
212 Posts | Posted - 14 Apr 2008 : 00:33:20
| | Actually.... I kind of disagree with an un-involved God type reasoning... especially pertaining to such a spiritually charged incident because it basically is saying (contrary to The Word) that God is uninvolved, implying that someone else can end your life without God's "permission" (as it were)... and assumes that God does not really take much thought to events of this world but just let's things play out as they will... I myself truly believe that if I walked out of work today and a car swerved off the road and killed me, that God was full aware of such impending danger and allowed it to occur. Some may "worry" about the implications that this could mean that we have no free will... but that is really not a factor in view of God's retrospective (or should I say circumspect) ability to omnisciently know of events apart from time itself. Knowing that something will occur does not mean that you "made" it happen but it does mean that you may have allowed it for the bigger picture. Did God intervene to prevent Moses'... or for that matter Jesus' early demise? Can anyone take your life unless God allows it? I was just listening to a radio broadcast about a dangerous type of belief system creeping into the church that suggests that God is really not involved with events on Earth... only the ones that are critical to the prophetic events outlined in scripture... I find that line of thinking very hard to believe... and it would render prayer over personal issues virtually useless... |
President of the
Juan Valdez fanclub
Kirk Out | |
| Captain Blasto
Cappuccino Junkie
USA
212 Posts | Posted - 14 Apr 2008 : 01:35:48
| | Though I will not assume that I know all of the dynamics surrounding why events have occurred I must ask if whether we ascribe Job's suffering to his righteousness or not is really the issue... God's protection was lifted... Job was not perfect... lest he should boast... the degree of sin does not necessarily dictate judgement... as we know it is the presence of righteousness that shields... (as seen in the story of Sodom) but THAT principle is pertaining to God's judgement (not regarding the acts of men... )(and God's allowing their ill-intended deeds to be carried out...) Did God know that David would kill Bathsheba's husband? Did He stop it? Had Uriah done some wicked thing? Did this event have a purpose? Does it prove free-will? Does God care for each of us individually? Though I was not justifying the entirety of the scope of the statements made by Falwell or Robertson I find it hard to believe that God was caught unaware... but what do I know? |
President of the
Juan Valdez fanclub
Kirk Out | |
| Captain Blasto
Cappuccino Junkie
USA
212 Posts | Posted - 14 Apr 2008 : 02:59:49
| | As we see in the story of Job, suffering does not denote the absence of the love of God. So the rationale that says God loves another nation less because they may have more hardship holds no water. Neither would God's allowing hardship or attack on our nation by another nation necessitate His disdain... It would (as a default via omniscience) require His foreknowledge as well as His non-intervention which could be considered a "lifting of His protection". We always seem to come back to this and while we may not be a "Christian Nation" we are most certainly a nation that was founded with Judeo-Christian roots... and we have certainly strayed from those roots and become numb to an understanding of the fear of the Lord. Utter destruction and chastisement are very different and we do see evidences of chastisement with Israel as you pointed out... |
President of the
Juan Valdez fanclub
Kirk Out | |
| AXEMAN2415
Guitar Weenie
USA
740 Posts | Posted - 14 Apr 2008 : 09:21:56
| quote:
Actually.... I kind of disagree with an un-involved God type reasoning...
For the record, I do, too, and I hope that in my response that I did not hint toward that. However, I must also say that allowing or disallowing events to occur is not an indicator of God's involvement or lack thereof. God's involvement with the events of man do not necessarily mean interference with man's choices or the consequences that spring from them (although, He could, and has done just that before).
quote:
especially pertaining to such a spiritually charged incident because it basically is saying (contrary to The Word) that God is uninvolved, implying that someone else can end your life without God's "permission" (as it were)...
As in the case of Job, Satan could do nothing to Job without God's permission to do so. And after both conversations between God and Satan, God gave the Devil very clear limitations. With that said, I agree with your assertion. But, again, I am not making an argument for a dis-involved deity, uninterested and unmoved by the events of His creation. I do not suggest that both God's eternal foreknowledge and His permission are incongruent. Nor do I believe or suggest that those attributes are incongruent with our free will. Like the Trinity, a divine mystery that defies explanation, but isn't really that hard to believe.
quote:
I myself truly believe that if I walked out of work today and a car swerved off the road and killed me, that God was full aware of such impending danger and allowed it to occur.
While true (and let us not hope for such a scenario :)), should you walk out of work and, knowing full well that a bus was coming, and you willingly and purposefully walked out in front of it, it is my sincere doubt that God is going to interfere with your choice to do yourself in. God could, of course, and has at times, I am sure, for His own desires and purposes. However, those are the exception, not the rule.
When I used to work at the building supply several years ago, I was constantly around power saws, both hand saws and the big multi-cut saws. It is my doubt, though I know that God loves me and has poured His grace and mercy upon me, that were I to stick my hand into the blade, that He would prevent my hand from being lopped right off. And then, it is my doubt that He would put my hand back on the exact way it was before I so stupidly stuck it in there. Could God restore me? Absolutely! Will God restore me? While your guess is as good as mine, it is my doubt that He would. Do I lack faith? Perhaps I do. But since there is precious little precedent for such involvement (and you being in the medical field have seen this numerous times), I am sure that God's choice of involvement is in a much different direction.
quote:
Though I will not assume that I know all of the dynamics surrounding why events have occurred I must ask if whether we ascribe Job's suffering to his righteousness or not is really the issue...
Perhaps, perhaps not. But, with regard to the comments made by Mssrs. Falwell and Robertson, they're covert implication was the apparent "lack of righteousness" of our nation. Surely, our nation is not without fault, nor will we escape judgment should we fail to repent. However, that is the fate of all nations, and it is not exclusive to the United States. I might remind folks that there is an awful lot of nobility in this nation, much more than many of the rest of the nations on this planet. Though noble deeds, by themselves, does not prevent righteous judgment, and I do not believe that our works save us, there is a clear distinction between those nations that allow the "chaff grow up with the wheat" and those who are just "chaff". I am sorry, perhaps I am very wrong, but I sincerely doubt that the United States is first in the "spank line", when it comes to wrath and judgment. To me, the Sudanese have a lot to answer for. The Chinese have a lot to answer for. Virtually any communist nation has a lot to answer for.Does that make us "better" than them? Maybe not "better", but "better off", I think.
Surely, the sins of homosexuality, debauchery, and idolatry are big "no-no"'s on God's "Hit Parade". But so is injustice and the corruption of justice. And many nations outside of our own are big violators of those things. I am afraid that I find it dubious that men of God would over generalize the cause of 9/11, particularly when they had an opportunity to show God's grace to those who were hurting from this tragedy.
If we remember the incident of the woman caught in adultery, whom the people were going to stone, and they asked Jesus to sanction her execution, we see that Jesus took a different tack when it came to judgment.
First, the people conveniently forgot to bring the male perpetrator of the adultery. While the woman was by no means innocent of the sin, the people were very selective of who should suffer the penalty. Definitely a perversion of justice. Jesus chose not to be involved in a "selective" application of the law. And, since even He demanded that we go and understand "I desire mercy, not sacrifice", I believe He applied His own dictum. Surely, Jesus could have taken the "Falwell/Robertson" approach and said, "Well, it was your sexual sin that brought this upon you," and, of course, He would have been right. But, instead Jesus took the opportunity to minister healing and restoration to her. Hmmm... I think Christ's lack of mentioning the obvious is something we may ought to well consider.
It is perhaps noteworthy that the woman "caught in adultery" may have been a victim of a patriarchal society which treated women as property, and not much else. Could it be that she was cast off by an insensitive husband who no longer found her suitable or attractive? Thus, the next "owner" of her simply uses her to satisfy his appetites, and throws her to the "wolves"? Women had no rights in that society, and thus they were constant victims of fraud, deceit, and abuse. Could that be the surrounding circumstance that Jesus understood? He, by no means, sanctioned her sin, nor did He excuse it (nor am I). However, could it be that Jesus chose to withhold penalty precisely because there was no parity? And, could it be, though America is far from perfect, and has plenty to answer for, the "charges" leveled against us are without merit? (Before you say it, I am NOT suggesting we are victims here. Nor am I suggesting we are without defense. I am simply saying that there needs to be a balance in the accusation.)
Look at it this way: We have a nation where we allow ALL men to be free, without oppression, even if that means some will choose to reject God. Is that not noble? Is that not Christ-like, to look at people, love them, and let them go (like Jesus did with the Rich Young Ruler, who rejected His message)? And if God will not force men to choose Him, why should we try to force men to choose Him? I think it is noble of us to allow both the faithful and the faithless to live in peace, side by side. I think it is righteous to allow men have both choice and the consequences of those choices be lived out. Yes, many suffer as a result of those choices. But, is that not the heart of the question first posed? |
"C'mon Dave, Gimme a break!" |
Edited by - AXEMAN2415 on 14 Apr 2008 09:44:31 | |
| AXEMAN2415
Guitar Weenie
USA
740 Posts | Posted - 14 Apr 2008 : 09:33:10
| quote:
We always seem to come back to this and while we may not be a "Christian Nation" we are most certainly a nation that was founded with Judeo-Christian roots... and we have certainly strayed from those roots and become numb to an understanding of the fear of the Lord.
So, if I am to understand this, should it be suggested that it would be better to be an evil nation from the start? That way, one could avoid judgment and wrath (or the lifting of divine protection) because, well, since "we didn't know any better"? But, if you're roots are in the Judeo-Christian faith, we therefore must suffer the lifting of the divine Hand? I am afraid I am not totally convinced of that.
That's like saying because you always show up on time for work, and then out of several years of faithfulness, you are late, and the boss fires you. But the guys (or gal) who always shows up late is never even confronted, because, well, "that's what he/she always does", and they always get away with it? No,with great respect, I am afraid I am not convinced that God is that selective and petty when it comes to His wrath and anger. I don't believe that God tells us not to pervert justice, and then perverts it Himself.
(Of course, to those who may be reading this from afar, I am not saying that the good Captain is suggesting that, either....) |
"C'mon Dave, Gimme a break!" | |
| Captain Blasto
Cappuccino Junkie
USA
212 Posts | Posted - 14 Apr 2008 : 10:44:20
| | You know truthfully at this point I don't know that I really even care... I'm kinda tired of all of the mental gymnastics of trying to figure out why God allowed this or whether he could have/should have prevented that... I tend to believe that everything happens for a reason... specifically God's reasons... The fact is He knows... and stuff happens... and generally we as humans by proxy deserve what we get... He is either very involved in the world's events down to a personal level or He isn't... If we want to try to justify our nation as it slips ever-further away from Him I suppose we can try... I am not looking to condemn this or any nation yet a self-justifying blind-eye approach is probably not wise either. The "go and sin no more" statement is integral to the adultress' story. The simple fact is that as soon as accountability becomes a possibility people become defensive... when they should be looking for a good advocate... myself included... Why does God allow suffering??? He just does... probably to see if His kids will do anything about it... |
President of the
Juan Valdez fanclub
Kirk Out | |
| AXEMAN2415
Guitar Weenie
USA
740 Posts | Posted - 14 Apr 2008 : 14:31:44
| quote:
Why does God allow suffering??? He just does... probably to see if His kids will do anything about it...
That, my dear Captain, is probably the answer that theologians and philosophers have been searching for for centuries..... |
"C'mon Dave, Gimme a break!" | |
| Grime
Starting Member
USA
26 Posts | Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 23:15:10
| In my absence it seems this discussion went off topic. The question most certainly is why God allows suffering. More specifically though, I am interested in the more personal aspects, because most people, especially unsaved, are interested in their own case first. Usually, those who ask this question in the general sense have some source of unresolved personal suffering.
Since creation is a fabric of space and time, it stands to reason that God, The Creator, is aware of all choices and consequences we make from 'Let There Be Light' to the passing away of the Old Earth. No, absolutely nothing surprises God, or catches Him off guard.
When faced with genuine suffering, simply saying "We don't know why you have to go through this, but..." provides no comfort regardless of what follows. Trust me. There has to be a reason for suffering to find comfort.
Is God prevented from helping in some cases, before you say He couldn't be prevented, He can not participate in or support sin (accepting a scenario is tough to imagine)? Is suffering part of a greater good to come? Does He allow suffering as a just punishment? Is it a testing of our faith? Is it a natural consequence of the fallen nature of this creation that He will redeem at His next coming?
My personal suffering has mostly come from choices others made. God allowed me to suffer from those consequences. Choosing to overcome those consequences, when possible, has made me stronger/better than I used to be. The permanent consequences have brought some positive changes to my life as well. Am I to be a part of a greater good .... I doubt it. He has been faithful in that He has made all things work good for me.
But my story is not everyone's. I submit to you that Job's suffering is an exception in that God found Him to be blameless in his praise, and that is a rare virtue. I'm not saying unrepeated, I don't know that many people :-). I'm saying rare. |
If your dream is not worth your life, then you are dreaming too small. | |
| Grime
Starting Member
USA
26 Posts | Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 23:38:29
| To be honest though, this is probably the best answer I have ever heard.
"Why does God allow suffering??? He just does... probably to see if His kids will do anything about it..."
|
If your dream is not worth your life, then you are dreaming too small. | |
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