| Author | Topic | | AXEMAN2415
Guitar Weenie
USA
740 Posts |  Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 17:04:09 
| Just to spur the discussion, I would like to offer some quotes that I have found very thought provoking, even though these quotes are not from theological sources.
Here they are:
quote:
"We cannot have a non-judgemental country or corrupting influences will run amok."---Bill O'Reilly
quote:
"Church leaders must be spiritual leaders, not worried about everyone's opinion. They must show leadership."---Bill O'Reilly
Now I realize that both quotes are by Fox personality, Bill O'Reilly. I am under no illusions. I realize that O'Reilly is not a mainstream Christian, and I disagree with him on some issues. But both of those quotes are very illuminating, with regard to Christian living.
We are living in a time when it seems that standing up for what's right is shunned, even in our churches, and that bothers me, personally.We Christians do spend an awful lot of time on the "Thou shalt not judge" part of Scripture, but we never seem to remember the part that tells us to "Hate sin."
I often find it somewhat irritating to hear Church leaders, of all denominational stripes, bemoan the state of our world in general, and our country (the U.S.) in particular, as one of decay and moral decline (which it is, no doubt), and yet turn right around and criticize those who take a stand on what's right. If you take a stand for what is right, even if you do not single out any individual for judgement, your very criticism will ultimately make evildoers feel judged.
My question is simple: Are we more concerned for hurting someone's feelings , or are we concerned with truth ?
When O'Reilly posited the statement on the Church leaders, it was in response to the pedophile preist scandal that rocked the Catholic church. There were those in the Church's ranks who were well aware of these evil atrocities being commited by it's members, and looked the other way.It wasn't until the public got wind of it through the secular press, that the Church began to do something about it, and even then, the Church danced and dodged it's reponsibilities to justice and mercy.There were Church leaders who refused to judge people's actions as sinful, because they hid behind the "Thou shalt not judge" so as to not deal with the issue. That to me is wrong.
I do not wish to pummel our Catholic brothers and sisters, for we Protestants have our own issues to deal with. But whether it is pedophilia in the priesthood, or adultery in the pastorate,or the sanctioning of homosexuality, or the pervasiveness of gossip, or the brother/sister hatred of favoritism, when will Church leaders stand up and say "This is wrong"?
Perhaps we have allowed ourselves to be so infested with worldly thought, that we consider legitimate criticism of sin as judgement . I do not wish to "judge" people out of the Church, but neither can we just tolerate and sanction sinful behavior as acceptable. By simply saying that something is "wrong", does that constitute an immoral judgement? I do not think so, but that is exactly where we are headed, because we have refused to make our stands on issues that are important.
Rather,we in the Church have chosen to invest our energies in very microbial ideas, such as what somebody is wearing to church, or what kind of car they drive, or whether they go to "R" rated movies, or whether they wear thier hair long or short, or have tattoos, and so forth. And while we have been straining out the gnat, we have been swallowing a camel. Those things that are pertinent to the health of the Church are being neglected. As such, we are slowly being overtaken by secular and worldy influences that will continue to corrupt and distract the Church from her mission.
I think O'Reilly is right. Church leaders need to quit worrying about everyone else's opinion and lead. |
"C'mon Dave, Gimme a break!" |
| AnonJr
Absent-minded Webmaster
USA
621 Posts | Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 19:43:26
| Fine. I'll take a stand... I don't care about your post.  
That's not true - I just couldn't help it.
It is interesting to see how the secular idea of "non-judgment" has been wrapped in the garments of "forgiveness." I think its equally telling that to say that we ought to do better immediately brings the rhetoric of "you are just focused on works" and how grace covers all.
I know this seems like a separate issue, but I strongly suspect that its the same war on two fronts. But enough rambling for the moment... I'll let others add their contributions. |
There's no trick to being a humorist when you have the whole government working for you.
- Will Rogers |  |
| _Wes
Starting Member
USA
9 Posts | Posted - 28 Nov 2006 : 08:50:08    
| Good post.
With folks like the Westboro Baptist (the folks that started the God hates fags site, and routinely protest at soldier funerals) out there - there are perhaps some folks that want to take a stand against that particular type of judgement. I think O'reilly is on to something else.
The world wants the church to judge based on the worlds standards of 'decency' and 'morality' - though it wants none. It's a double standard and giving in to it is not only dangerous, its wrong.
This kind of thinking, in my opinion, is what led certain churches to accept gay leaders (which is wrong!). How many murderer bishops are there? Priests bank robbers? Pimp pastors? Adulterers that are given greater responsibility while professing their sin? It's wrong. While as Christians I believe we are sinners - and not perfect - I think you have to draw a line when it comes to accepting sin as "not my fault" or whatever - you don't elevate as a leader someone who denies that sin is sin.
Just my opinion. . . |
_Wes
| |
| AXEMAN2415
Guitar Weenie
USA
740 Posts | Posted - 28 Nov 2006 : 11:59:41
| | Pimp pastors?...Oh, Man..That one's going into the act...lol...somewhere... |
"C'mon Dave, Gimme a break!" | |
| _Wes
Starting Member
USA
9 Posts | Posted - 29 Nov 2006 : 08:04:33
| lol.....oh, great!!! Please don't give me credit!!!! (It had to be lack of caffeine - or something!!)
:D
|
_Wes
| |
| AXEMAN2415
Guitar Weenie
USA
740 Posts | Posted - 29 Nov 2006 : 14:28:16
| | Are you kidding? I would never think of giving anyone else credit... |
"C'mon Dave, Gimme a break!" | |
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