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| T O P I C R E V I E W | | AXEMAN2415 | Posted - 01 Aug 2007 : 22:28:26
Jesus Joshua 24:15 Newsletter - August 2007
The Band:
Bobby Shepherd: Drums
Steve Pettit: Lead Vocals
Jay Woody: Bass
Will Rauser: Guitars
The Crew:
Mark Bussell: Webmaster, Computer Tech
Jim Bishop: Promotion, PR
Tammy Woody: Video Production, Wardrobe
Juli Rauser: Booking
George Sparks: Roadie
Editor's Lead
The Environment for Change
Hi, there! And welcome to another monthly edition of the Jesus Joshua 24:15 Newsletter. I have certainly enjoyed the robust conversation that has erupted as a result of these monologues. This edition no doubt should stir some interesting discussion. It is my hope that it will.
As usual, I was listening to one of my favorite radio talk show personalities - whose name I shall keep to myself (as I do not wish for anyone's disapproval, or approval, of my listening preferences to distract from the main point) - and he had an interesting story that occurred just recently. To digest the story to it's bare essentials I'll leave out some of the more mundane and ancillary details. At any rate, the story goes like this:
Apparently, just recently (within the last 3 or four weeks) McDonald's (of the Golden Arches fame) had issued a press release in which they announced plans to utilize the performance services of a rapper by the name of "Twista" - a "Gansta Rapper" from south Chicago - in the sale of their fast food products. As I understand the story, McDonald's intended to finance a tour and provide certain endorsement packages with the Gangstsa Rapper's mug all over the products.
This did not sit well with a certain Chicago priest. I am not familiar with "Twista's" brand of music (although I did get a taste of some of his "tamer" lyricism on the talk show, bleeps included), but I can tell you that "Twista" is, well... twisted to turn a phrase. I guess this Chicago priest was not at all amused or impressed with "Twista's" poetry either. The priest took out billboards in Chicago to denounce McDonald's for allowing it's name to be associated with a rather unwholesome character considering that McDonald's is supposed to be "Family Oriented."
Well, this story caught the attention of our vaunted talk show host and he made some calls to McDonald's upper management desiring to know why they had agreed to enter into business with this, well, "ganster" musician. To make an incredibly long story short, once the news of this arrangement garnered the national spotlight, McDonalds pulled thier endorsements from "Twista." A victory? Well, I would guess so. However, it is the question posed by our talk show host on his radio program, after the dust had settled, that I thought really had merit. I would like to share his question with you, and offer some analysis.
His question to the radio listening audience was this: "Yes, I know the people spoke, we won, and McDonald's did the right thing. But I have to ask, why did we need to do this in the first place? Surely, McDonald's thought this through. Why is it that we are having to even make these kinds of demands on American businesses?"
As I heard our honored host ask these questions, I thought, "Excellent question!" And, although our host was somewhat dumbfounded and searching for a plausible answer, I thought about it for a few moments and I came to a conclusion similar to one that noted Christian apologist Ravi Zacharias has said. In so many words (because I cannot remember the exact quote), Dr. Zacharias said that there used to be a time in the United States when everything in the culture revolved around the language and influence of religion. Today, that is not the case. There used to be time when even the heathen, or the non-believer (however you choose to describe them), was restrained by the overarching of Scriptural teaching (even if they were not aware of it). For example, there used to be a time in the culture when people who used profanity only did so under the most extreme circumstances, and never in front of children. Nowadays, people not only swear openly and in front of their children, but in front of your children too. There is a careless disregard for any kind of moral behavior, and as such the morality of certain behaviors and actions are being eclipsed.
I am not endorsing a chameleon-type charade in which people pretend to fool us with a sense of false piety. I am not asking anyone, if you do not believe in Jesus Christ, to pretend to be a Christian. I am not saying that I get offended at the use of profanity in my presence. I want people to be real, not plastic. However, why should we be surprised at the slide into cultural oblivion, when the very pillars of a responsible society are being eroded?
To me, the same erosion of personal behavioral and ethical standards is the same erosion that allows a Billion Dollar a year company to have to be reminded of it's societal responsibilities. This is not a rich versus the poor argument. This isn't even about music. This is about the dismembering of God's influence upon a society.
I was reading in the book of Romans, chapter 1, and I came across this
particular passage in verses 21-28. I am not going to quote it all, just some selected parts of it, but I read it right after I heard about the "Twista/McDonald's" debacle and I think it is fitting to help answer our famed Talk Show Host's query:
Romans 1:21-23
quote:
"For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles."
Romans 1:28
quote:
"Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, He gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not be done."
Ravi Zacharias, in his book "Deliver Us From Evil," wrote these words,
quote:
"When any belief is expelled, one is not left with a position of neutrality. Anytime a world-view is evicted, it will be replaced by another."
Are you seeing the striking similarity of Dr. Zacharias' words, the Scripture out of Romans chapter 1, and the seeming ease that McDonald's (or any corporation or group) can simply not realize the ethical and moral conundrum that they placed themselves? Boy, I sure can!
I would like to once more quote Dr. Zacharias, and note the words very carefully, because they describe the society into which we are slipping;
quote:
"[Balance] is shaken when fences are removed because straying becomes impossible when there is no line to differentiate between the safe and the perilous. In an unbelievable and shocking turn of events we have moved from speaking out against certain moral choices to being pressured by political enforcement and the so-called tolerant cultural elite not only to accept what was once disapproved of, but to celebrate it."
This becomes the environment for cultural change. And it is insidious, and undermining.
News and Events
- Last month (July) Jesus Joshua 24:15 had the wondrous privilege of playing with label mates "Broken 3418" in Masillon, Ohio. JJ24:15 opened, slammed the audience, and made way for Broken to come in and they proceeded to tear people's heads off with their excellent set. A great time was had by all.
- Unfortunately, Jesus Joshua 24:15 will not be performing at the "School of the Rock" this August 4. The show, with label mates "Wisdom's Call" had to be postponed by the venue. A rescheduling is being considered, and will be announced at a later date.
- If anyone is interested, Jesus Joshua 24:15 has a spot on the "Number One Music" site, and has currently well over 101,000 plays thus far!
Guitar Points from Will
(Sigh)Yet, more Rhythm Guitar!
Last month, I directed you to "3-chord" types of rhythm guitar. A lot of great tunes from many great bands utilize the "3-chord" type of writing. I am not disparaging songs with more than 3 chords, but I am trying to get you to understand that complex harmony doesn't always make for a great tune.
Sometimes, less is more (although, I almost hate using that phrase).
This month, I would like to continue with this idea. I would like to use a couple of different keys (particularly guitar-friendly keys, such as "E", "A", "D", and "G"). let's make up some examples.
First let's use "E" Major. Now, "E" Major uses these 7 types of chords in it's harmonic structure:
I iim iiim IV V7 vim viim7b5 (also called "Half-Diminished")
E, F#m, G#m, A, B7, C#m, D#m7b5
Each key (E Major in this case) has in it's basic structure 7 chords; 3 Major triads (E,A,B), 3 minor triads(F#m,G#m,C#m) and one Half-Diminished chord (D#m7b5).
Now, I said only three chords. So let's lift the I, IV, and V7 chords (E, A, and B7). Just so you know, you can leave out the "7" in the B chord, but it helps to distinguish that Major chord from the other two Major chords.
Ex 1a
(I) (IV)(V)
E A B
E|-0---0---2--|
B|-0---2---4--|
G|-1---2---4--|
D|-2---2---4--|
A|-2---0---2--|
E|-0----------|
Ex 1b
(I) (IV) (V)
E A B
E|-7---5----7--|
B|-9---5----7--|
G|-9---6----8--|
D|-9---7----9--|
A|-7---7----9--|
E|-----5----7--|
Ex 1c
(I) (IV)(V)
E/G# A B
E|------------|
B|-5---5---7--|
G|-4---6---8--|
D|-6---7---9--|
A|------------|
E|------------|
Now even though I have showed you the 3 chords in order of their appearance in the key of E Major, there is no rule that says you have to play them that way. Reversing the order of the chords will not change the key of your song, but it will lead your ear to different landing spots musically.
In any key, your ear wants to be led to the I chord of any key. In our examples above, the I chord is "E" Major. Playing the chords out of Key sequence may "fool" your ear into thinking you're landing somewhere else, until your "resolve" it to the I chord. In other words, play the B chord first, followed by the E, then to the A, and back to the B. It sounds different than of you played straight E, A, & B.Let's look at some practical applications for this kind of thinking.
Ex 2a
I V I IV
E5 B5 E5 A5
E|-------------------------------|
B|-------------------------------|
G|------------4--------------2---|
D|-----2------4------2-------2---|
A|-----2------2------2-------0---|
E|-0-0-0--0-0----0-0-0---0-0-----|
Ex 2b
IV I V I
A E/G# B/F# E/B
E|-----------------------------|
B|-2-----5-----4-----9---------|
G|-2-----4-----4-----9---------|
D|-2-----6-----4-----9---------|
A|-0---------------------------|
E|---0-0---0-0---0-0---0-0-0-0-|
Make sure to palm-mute ("chunk") the low "E" notes to give these pieces some movement and heaviness. Don't worry about the "slash" notes in the chords.
All that signifies is the lowest note of that chord being in the bass (or lowest voice) of the chord. But notice how easily only 3 chords can sound musical and original? Try finding any 3 chords, from any key,and experiment with how you can rearrange them to make riffs.Don't worry if they sound good, or even original. Just experiment to get them into your head.
Lead Techniques from Will
One technique for lead guitar that needs to be stressed is the "Bend". This is where your fingers actually put pressure on the string to stretch it, thus raising the pitch of the note you're playing. Now, I must tell you that "bending" is extremely difficult to tab properly using "notepad" produced tabulature. However, with a little ingenuity we can easily decipher my attempts at transcribing them.
Let's use the scale patterns from the last couple of articles. We will stick with the E-minor pentatonic scale for our material. Let's begin with the 12th fret pattern;
Ex.1
E|-------------------------|
B|-------------------------|
G|-------------------12-14-|
D|-------------12-14-------|
A|-------12-14-------------|
E|-12-15-------------------|
E|-------12-15-12----------|
B|-12-15----------15-12----|
G|----------------------14-|
D|-------------------------|
A|-------------------------|
E|-------------------------|
E|-----------------------|
B|-----------------------|
G|-12--------------------|
D|----14-12--------------|
A|----------14-12--------|
E|----------------15-12--|
Now, with that in mind, instead of picking every note, let's start bending the crap out of them!
Ex. 2
B--| B--| B--|
E|------------------------------|
B|------------------------------|
G|---------------------12-(14)--|
D|--------------12-(14)---------|
A|-------12-(14)----------------|
E|-12-15------------------------|
B---| B---||R--|
E|-----------12-15-(17)-15-12-|
B|-12-15-(17)-----------------|
G|----------------------------|
D|----------------------------|
A|----------------------------|
E|----------------------------|
Now, "B" means "Bend", or "Bend Up". "R" means "Release" or let the bend down. Now, some tabulatures that use notepad put the "B" and the "R" in the lines. I hapen to think that makes the TAB harder to read, so I put the letters above the tab for ease of reading.
Also, if you notice in the TAB, I used parentheses for the note that the pitch is bent to. You are not actually fretting, or fingering the note, in parentheses, but that is the pitch you will sound when you bend. Say you bend the 15 fret of the 2nd string. If you bend it up, you can hear the next scale tome of the E-minor pentatonic scale. You can bend it even further to get other notes, but be careful, as the string will break if bent too far. Try bending to notes rather than fretting them as this will create a singing like tone from your leads.
A Final Thought
As my final thought, I would like to discuss the fine lines between the worlds of business, art, and ministry for the Christian in music. I am not against anyone making music their career, whether Christian or not. Nor am I against making money, whether Christian or not. I also don't really have a problem with Christians who play music for a living, even within the secular music realms. However, I do wish to make some personal distinctions. I am a both a Christian and a Musician. And as such I have chosen to accept my calling to minister the Gospel of Jesus Christ through the medium of music. Although, as my statements above indicate, I do not have a problem with Christians having a secular music career - there is much to be sacrificed for that career. And unfortunately, nefarious influences can be much easier to access within such a career. Of course, any career can supply that.
But my point is I am not called to a record deal, or contracts. I am not against them, and if that happens to open up, I may prayerfully consider them. But my pursuit, joy, and calling is not in that area. My calling is to minister the Gospel of Jesus Christ to this lost world. That is my focus, that is the focus of Jesus Joshua 24:15 as a band, and the focus of all of my band mates. The Music Industry doesn't hold much passion for me. There was a time when it would have. But not at this point in my life. I understand the process, but that is because I have to.
I do not belabor my fellow Christian musicians who are chasing after record deals and music careers. However, I must consider what is more important. God has amply supplied my band mates and I with everything a band could ever need to be successful, both in doing Kingdom business, and doing what we love secondly, the music. We can write, record, and perform as much as we want to, and we do not need any outside influence upon what God has established for us. We can say what we want, we can look as we desire, and we can go where we need to be. God has graciously allowed us to "keep it in our hands" and let no outside influence shake our mission.
That may perhaps mean that we will never attain any kind of lucrative living from our music. But, Jesus said "seek first the Kingdom of God, and it's righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you." That doesn't mean will will be famous, or rich, or even make a decent wage from our talents. But it does mean that God will use us mightily. | | 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) | | herbhalstead | Posted - 28 Aug 2007 : 21:12:38
I think we certainly should do the best we can to uphold our values through our wallets. However, I think that we can get just as carried away with that as with anything else, and trust me, if we took all of this to the n-th degree, we will have to eat at home for EVERY meal. In fact, we'll have to buy some land and raise our own cattle and grow our own veggies. Besides, my guess is that the few boycotters, however well intentioned they may be, do not hurt the corps much if at all - it is only when they are publicly humiliated that they feel real damage. My M.O. these days is to try to eat at Chick-Fil-A as much as possible (grin), but of course they are not open on Sundays, so we go somewhere that's open on Sundays... oops, I think I smell a new can of worms being opened... but I digress... perhaps a better reaction is to try to build positive relationships with these corps to show them the value of supporting decency... I dare say that a heavy hand against the corps has just as much effectiveness as thumping heads with Bibles... now... where's my Starbucks gift-card??? | | AXEMAN2415 | Posted - 13 Aug 2007 : 21:07:11
Sounds like you're sending me a box of cereal...lol | | Shredhead | Posted - 13 Aug 2007 : 07:01:52
quote:
Amen, and Amen! Now, please pass the ammunition....
One box of " Shredders " on the way lolololololololol....sorry . | | AXEMAN2415 | Posted - 12 Aug 2007 : 21:02:07
quote:
We have become complacent. We sell our values off for the sake of convenience. That's why the CEO had to be called.
It wasn't for farting flowers? | | Grime | Posted - 12 Aug 2007 : 19:10:50
In capitalism, the consumer has all of the power. If you don't like the price of gas, walk your oversized wrangler jeans to work. In doing so, you'll find that your wranglers will start costing you less due to less material being used. Happy savings all around! By the time you have replaced your jeans with a couple of sizes smaller, gas will be back down to $1.50 per gallon.
Should I be upset that a person who endorses rape, drugs, murder, cop killing, and general mayhem and destruction has been given an air of legitimacy because a huge, nice, family oriented corporation has chosen him as a spokesperson? OH YEAH!
What should I do about it? Stop eating Mickey D's obviously. They have every right to pick their spokesman, period. I have every right, but more importantly a responsibility, to stop supporting those who support sin.
Now, why did the CEO have to be called? Because he didn't know one or both of couple of things. 1) What Twista actually performs. He knew that Twista is big and could pull in some money. 2) How big a backlash he'd receive by endorsing this guy. Regardless of whether or not he knew who Twista was, there are some gambles that are "worth the risk." So, the gamble was on how many people will he lose compared to how many people he will gain by a move like this?
I hope he was a completely clueless about Twista. I hope he wasn't playing an odds game. Then again, no rap artist who has made it big raps about fluffy, fuzzy, bunnies who fart flowers.
We, as a society, have given our consumer power over for convenience. Will I eat a McD's burger again? Probably because there will come a time that I am running late and "can't afford to go somewhere else." So, I'll drive through and pick up a #1, super-sized, with a coke. So, I will have just compromised my Christian values and still be late anyway. But hey, I will have filled my stomach.
And that's what corporations count on. Walmart saw a small financial hit when American churches boycotted them on their supposed support of Gay and Lesbian Rights. They laid off some workers, waited it out until business returned, and then replaced the workers they laid off with cheaper labor. I know one of the people who asked me to join this un-researched boycott has gone back to buying from Walmart not knowing the "support" was a court settlement.
How many people really do stick to their guns? Last summer $3.00/gallon on gas was an outrage. Now, we're just glad it isn't $3.50. Once the word diarrhea was taboo for TV. Now bit** is acceptable.
We have become complacent. We sell our values off for the sake of convenience. That's why the CEO had to be called. | | AXEMAN2415 | Posted - 10 Aug 2007 : 17:35:20
quote:
Ten Simple Rules for Dating My Daughter
Amen, and Amen! Now, please pass the ammunition.... | | Captain Blasto | Posted - 10 Aug 2007 : 08:33:53
Rule 11) Remember the Sabbath or you'll be holey !  | | Shredhead | Posted - 10 Aug 2007 : 02:24:05
Five years hey ?
Just enough time to memorize these & roll out the razor wire .
quote:
Ten Simple Rules for Dating My Daughter
Tuesday, August 10th, 2004
Rule One:
If you pull into my driveway and honk you'd better be delivering a package, because you're sure not picking anything up.
Rule Two:
You do not touch my daughter in front of me. You may glance at her, so long as you do not peer at anything below her neck. If you cannot keep your eyes or hands off of my daughter's body, I will remove them.
Rule Three:
I am aware that it is considered fashionable for boys of your age to wear their trousers so loosely that they appear to be falling off their hips. Please don't take this as an insult, but you and all of your friends are complete idiots. Still, I want to be fair and open minded about this issue, so I propose this compromise: You may come to the door with your underwear showing and your pants ten sizes too big, and I will not object. However, in order to ensure that your clothes do not, in fact, come off during the course of your date with my daughter, I will take my electric nail gun and fasten your trousers securely in place to your waist.
Rule Four:
I'm sure you've been told that in today's world, sex without utilizing a "barrier method" of some kind can kill you. Let me elaborate, when it comes to sex, I am the barrier, and I will kill you.
Rule Five:
It is usually understood that in order for us to get to know each other, we should talk about sports, politics, and other issues of the day. Please do not do this. The only information I require from you is an indication of when you expect to have my daughter safely back at my house, and the only word I need from you on this subject is "early."
Rule Six:
I have no doubt you are a popular fellow, with many opportunities to date other girls. This is fine with me as long as it is okay with my daughter. Otherwise, once you have gone out with my little girl, you will continue to date no one but her until she is finished with you. If you make her cry, I will make you cry.
Rule Seven:
As you stand in my front hallway, waiting for my daughter to appear, and more than an hour goes by, do not sigh and fidget. If you want to be on time for the movie, you should not be dating. My daughter is putting on her makeup, a process that can take longer than painting the Golden Gate Bridge. Instead of just standing there, why don't you do something useful, like changing the oil in my car?
Rule Eight:
The following places are not appropriate for a date with my daughter:
Places where there are beds, sofas, or anything softer than a wooden stool.
Places where there are no parents, policemen, or nuns within eyesight.
Places where there is darkness.
Places where there is dancing, holding hands, or happiness.
Places where the ambient temperature is warm enough to induce my daughter to wear shorts, tank tops, midriff T-shirts, or anything other than overalls, a sweater, and a goose down parka - zipped up to her throat.
Movies with a strong romantic or sexual theme are to be avoided;
Movies which features chain saws are okay. Hockey games are okay.
Old folks homes are better.
Rule Nine:
Do not lie to me. I may appear to be a potbellied, balding, middle-aged, dimwitted has-been. But on issues relating to my daughter, I am the all-knowing, merciless god of your universe. If I ask you where you are going and with whom, you have one chance to tell me the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Rule Ten:
Be afraid. Be very afraid. It takes very little for me to mistake the sound of your car in the driveway for a chopper coming in over a rice paddy near Hanoi. When my Agent Orange starts acting up, the voices in my head frequently tell me to clean the guns as I wait for you to bring my daughter home. As soon as you pull into the driveway you should exit your car with both hands in plain sight. Speak the perimeter password, announce in a clear voice that you have brought my daughter home safely and early, then return to your car - there is no need for you to come inside. The camouflaged face at the window is mine.
| | AXEMAN2415 | Posted - 09 Aug 2007 : 15:25:37
quote:
Actually , I'd like to take this opportunity to say to all potential suitors , I have 5 acres , a shotgun & a shovel , they won't find you .
LOL! Hey, I am going to have that problem very soon (well, 5 years, but what is that?). Can I use your Shotgun, shovel, and land? lol! Surely, you can give your American ally some blessed Aussie assistance...lol! | | Shredhead | Posted - 09 Aug 2007 : 02:47:43
quote:
It doesn't make it any more right to exclusively sell to adults. But it does make it better. Allow me to ask you, because of your previous points above ( and legitimate ones they are) should we even purchase Sony blank discs?
Yeah , I know mate , it doesn't seem very " workable " . You mentioned before that a line has to be crossed , & I agree , but it seems to me that it's always "them" crossing the line onto my turf , this , is what fires me up , because I don't give away ground that I've fought hard for , easily .
As far as buying anything from a company that supports morally corrosive material is concerned , I can honestly say I try my best NOT to support them , even if it costs me a few extra dollars . I try to keep my cash in the Kingdom so to speak .
This of course begs the question , " how far do you go ? " . Where does the plastic that makes the cd cases come from ? But I do what I can do , as my conscience guides me .
quote:
Has God's standards changed? Certainly not, and I would never suggest otherwise.
But if we know those standards , we have a responsibility to live them , because we'll certainly be judged by them .
quote:
But we must also consider that some things are not as concrete as we first thought.
That would be us , making a mistake , something we all do . But , it's this " concrete foundation " which I seek . Once I've found it , I can build on it , I say this only to explain my motivation . I recall several times I stared at the sand & called it rock , or vice versa , the thing is , to God , it always was , what it was .
quote:
You mentioned "It must be the Dad in me". Certainly a wondeful motivation. But even the Scripture tells us not to exasperate our children. Is there not a point where your children must diverge from your thinking? A wise dad (one that I think you are, BTW) would consider how to let go and let God.
Firstly , let me say thank you .
Doesn't the scripture say not to provoke our children ? I'm sure it means the same thing , probably just a cultural translation .
I hope my kids don't diverge too far from the foundation we've built . But , yes I understand & axiously agree with your point , it's just difficult , but , Love's like that lol .
While I don't want to be an irritating dictator in anyones life , it still pains me to see people make a mistake . It infuriates me to see people fall into a trap that the devil has layed . That's why when I hear of traps being layed like the Twista one , I get a bit bristled lol .
quote:
Me... I just lock 'em up in the basement
Don't tempt me lol . My daughter is 13 , & I trust her completely , but I've noticed an unequal balance in the ratio of male to female phone calls asking for her 
Actually , I'd like to take this opportunity to say to all potential suitors , I have 5 acres , a shotgun & a shovel , they won't find you .
| | AXEMAN2415 | Posted - 08 Aug 2007 : 21:45:16
You have a basement?!? | | Captain Blasto | Posted - 08 Aug 2007 : 17:34:29
Me... I just lock 'em up in the basement and feed 'em after they start to challenge me... | | AXEMAN2415 | Posted - 08 Aug 2007 : 17:14:55
quote:
I guess I was just being too idealistic or absolute in my thinking . If something is wrong I tend to call them wrong regardless of their target audience . Just because they call them " Adult Book Stores " , doesn't make it any more right than if they sold them to kids . Wrong is wrong .
You are absolutely correct, wrong is wrong, no matter how you dress it up, or try to redefine it. Yes, certainly calling a porno shop and "adult book store" (although it is) is a clever euphemism to deflect the impact of such a place. It doesn't make it any more right to exclusively sell to adults. But it does make it better. Allow me to ask you, because of your previous points above ( and legitimate ones they are) should we even purchase Sony blank discs?
There is nothing wrong with wanting God's way here on earth. Jesus taught us to pray "Thy will be done on Earth, as it is in Heaven." However, we all must be careful that we don't try to become amateur providences in other folks lives. When we try to do that, we will only become irritating dictators.
There is also nothing wrong with being idealistic and absolute in your thinking. I certainly am both. However, life has a funny way of mking us rethink our staunch positions, particularly with regard to spiritual issues. Has God's standards changed? Certainly not, and I would never suggest otherwise. But we must also consider that some things are not as concrete as we first thought. Remember we are frail human beings, subject to fail at just about anything (including our thought processes). I make no excuses for sinful behavior. I make no excuses for man's rejection of God's standards. And yet, somehow, I have to respond above what the legalities would often imply. I think there are limits to that, but it is something we must ponder.
You mentioned "It must be the Dad in me". Certainly a wondeful motivation. But even the Scripture tells us not to exasperate our children. Is there not a point where your children must diverge from your thinking? A wise dad (one that I think you are, BTW) would consider how to let go and let God. | | Shredhead | Posted - 08 Aug 2007 : 06:55:31
I see & understand your point mate . I guess I was just being too idealistic or absolute in my thinking . If something is wrong I tend to call them wrong regardless of their target audience . Just because they call them " Adult Book Stores " , doesn't make it any more right than if they sold them to kids . Wrong is wrong .
I know you agree in principal , sometimes I just get carried away with wanting Gods way here on earth , regardless of wordly opposition . It must be the " dad " in me lol . | | AXEMAN2415 | Posted - 07 Aug 2007 : 17:44:02
quote:
Why are we upset at McDonalds & not Sony ? Are McDonalds closer to righteousness just because they don't sell the same filth ?
While your point is well taken, I think we need a little parity here. We must understand certain contexts with which certain wares are sold, or certain endorsers are used. I am afraid that no one can be completely squeaky clean in the products that they sell. You mentioned condoms in the Happy Meals. Okay, certainly inappropriate to the content, context, and targeted consumer of the Happy Meals (although, that would probably increase sales....Oh, but that's your point, isn't it...lol). However, I wouldn't have a problem with McDonald's investing in, say, the "OzzFest", even though there is much trash that goes along with that. I wouldn't have a problem with McDonald's investing in "Twista's" tour. I just don't think it is appropriate for Twista to be the official spokesperson for McDonald's. Like, if you're going to sell condoms (which I don't have a problem with), don't put them in "Cracker Jack" (which I do have a problem with). I think it is more where you target your endorsements, rather than every little thing that you sell.
Before anybody stones me online for my above comments, think it out. McDonald's is one of hundreds of advertisers that support many different television programs. Many of those programs aren't always, how shall we say, pure? Yet, not one of us seems to mind McDonald's doing business with them. There has to be line crossed, for sure, and I think choosing Twista as a spokesperson for McDonald's is a real stupid move (one that they have canceled)and crosses that line. But, you know, I don't think that is always a good thing. I just think it depends upon the target audience that the endorser is pointed at. Like I said before, using Shlitz Malt during "Law& Order" wouldn't bother me. Using Shlitz Malt during Saturday morning cartoons would. | | Shredhead | Posted - 07 Aug 2007 : 01:05:10
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(Oh, and BTW, Shred, I am not, in any way, offended, upset, or confused by your statements. Your comments are appropriate. Whether I agree or disagree is another matter. But you're not out of line, and I don't think you've taken leave of your senses...lol!)
I'll have try harder lol . Seriously though , I understand that .
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Well, should we then even purchase anything made by Sony, even if it is Christian? I agree that there's much filth being hoisted upon society, particularly to the young audience. However, while I agree with that sentiment, should we not take things to their logical conclusion? Should we even use our purchasing power to solicit Sony's business, even the benign products they sell?
This is my point Will . Why are we upset at McDonalds & not Sony ? Are McDonalds closer to righteousness just because they don't sell the same filth ? Yes McD's do a lot of great work in the community , but so does MTV . As a matter of fact , out here , it's law that casino's & lotteries have to donate a % of their winnings to charity every year , but that doesn't mean I'm going to start gambling .... rambling yes , but gambling no .
I see a connection between the two , because both are just interested in making money , that's their #1 priority . It isn't their morals that stop them using Twista , or putting condoms in their Happy Meals , it's people like us .
| | AXEMAN2415 | Posted - 06 Aug 2007 : 10:08:27
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I agree Will , that wasn't what I was really saying lol. I was speaking of the one incident you mentioned . Nothing wrong with making money .
But doesn't legitimate business become an illegitimate child when it holds up the morally bereft as spokespersons ?
Yes, here I would agree, to a point. If we measured legitimate businesses based on the moral fiber of their spokespersons, well, nobody would be a legit business. I think that we have to be careful of the mixed messages that some businesses would send by their spokespeople. Or, rather, they ought to be careful. I mean, if "Twista" was used as an endorser for Schlitz Malt Liquor, then I could see the connection, and I wouldn't have such a personal issue with it, because Schlitz Malt is geared toward adults. Whether or not anyone finds that morally reprehensible is another matter. That would be a fitting endorsement of a fitting product.
However, "Twista" as a spokesperson for McDonald's is like having Hugh Hefner as a spokesman for "Focus On The Family."
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Now , a question , why should we condemn McDonalds , when Sony , or whoever , unleashes this filth on the public , & lets face it , what age group is it targeting ? Yet sony , MTV etc , don't even get a rap over the knuckles .
Well, should we then even purchase anything made by Sony, even if it is Christian? I agree that there's much filth being hoisted upon society, particularly to the young audience. However, while I agree with that sentiment, should we not take things to their logical conclusion? Should we even use our purchasing power to solicit Sony's business, even the benign products they sell?
But again, this actually swerves from my original question: Why should any CEO, or Board of Directors, or Businessowner have to be reminded of their social responsibilities toward society? Liek my comparison above, I do not think that "Focus On The Family" would need to be reminded that Hugh Hefner is probably not the best person to endorse their productions.
(Oh, and BTW, Shred, I am not, in any way, offended, upset, or confused by your statements. Your comments are appropriate. Whether I agree or disagree is another matter. But you're not out of line, and I don't think you've taken leave of your senses...lol!)
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Did someone say RAP !
Yeah, unfortunately, even rap has got to be mentioned....but remember, "rap" is part of "Crap"..... | | Captain Blasto | Posted - 06 Aug 2007 : 08:16:09
Did someone say RAP ! | | Shredhead | Posted - 06 Aug 2007 : 01:45:34
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No, respectfully, I do not agree. Legitimate business is not the streetwalker of success. We have to remember that business requires two participants, the Producer and the Consumer. There would be no money in prostitution if no one was interested in the "product". The immorality of prostution (besides the obvious sexual sin) is the trafficking in human beings. Yes, people do profit monetarily from those transactions (and usually not the whore), but that isn't the point.
I agree Will , that wasn't what I was really saying lol. I was speaking of the one incident you mentioned . Nothing wrong with making money .
But doesn't legitimate business become an illegitimate child when it holds up the morally bereft as spokespersons ?
Yes , it requires two participants , as I said , but that doesn't lessen their responsiblity , even as heathen .
Now , a question , why should we condemn McDonalds , when Sony , or whoever , unleashes this filth on the public , & lets face it , what age group is it targeting ? Yet sony , MTV etc , don't even get a rap over the knuckles . | | AXEMAN2415 | Posted - 05 Aug 2007 : 02:47:21
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Because the dollar defines the culture , & unfortunately , when money is concerned , the dollar defines morality . There's no better example of this , than prostitution . It's always deeply saddened me to think of how a person can detach themselves from what God has given them , from what He created them to be .
Isn't this the same thing business does , prostitutes itself for the dollar ?
No, respectfully, I do not agree. Legitimate business is not the streetwalker of success. We have to remember that business requires two participants, the Producer and the Consumer. There would be no money in prostitution if no one was interested in the "product". The immorality of prostution (besides the obvious sexual sin) is the trafficking in human beings. Yes, people do profit monetarily from those transactions (and usually not the whore), but that isn't the point.
Now, I would agree with you assertion that it is sorrowful to see people detach themselves from God's purpose, which is the whole basis of sin in the first place. However, I am loathe to paint with a broad brush all those who legitimately do business with those who do not.
The Bible tells us the "The love of money is the root of all evil," not money itself.
The fundamental question remains, why did anyone have to place a call to McDonald's CEO in the first place? There was a time when this kind of thing was a "no-brainer". Yes, I would agree that greed certainly played a part in this, but if I was a greedy business man, I wouldn't want to scare my potential consumers away with an obvious bad PR move as hiring "Twista" to promote my products. Seems to me that there is more at play here than simple greed. |
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